Author Topic: Driving Licence Issue numbers  (Read 8537 times)

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Offline Iggy

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Driving Licence Issue numbers
« on: October 13, 2011, 05:45:18 PM »
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Hi all..

Got a question about Driving Licence issue numbers and thought I might get an answer here.. (tried DVLA & DSA)

I work as a Motorcycle CBT / DAS Instructor and when I meet my customers I check their driving licences to ensure they have the correct provisional entitlement to take part in any on-road training.

In the past, if the issue number on the photocard and the counterpart didn't match, we would not allow any on-road training as they have been unable to produce a valid driving licence (they've shown me two halves of two licences).

We've now had instruction at work to accept licences with mis-matched issue numbers and continue with on-road training.

I know I can be charged with aiding and abetting if I supervise someone on the road with no provisional entitlement, but the question is, would I be under any responsibility by knowingly supervising someone on the road when I know that I've not seen a valid driving licence but a mis-matched card and counterpart??..

Thanks in advance..
CBR1100XX-5
Wey Valley Advanced Motorcyclists

Jab

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 06:21:10 PM »
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Hi Iggy. Why would there be any discrepancies between the photocard & paperpart, if it wasn't for the fact that the licences weren't one & the same?

Offline Iggy

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 06:28:11 PM »
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If I am presented a photocard with the issue number 15, for example and a counterpart with the issue number 14, that's two halves of two licences. I have no way of knowing what endorsements/bans or provisional entitlement are in force. However, knowing this, my training school wish us to still take the holder on-road, even though I've not seen a valid licence.
CBR1100XX-5
Wey Valley Advanced Motorcyclists

Nigel

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 06:39:43 PM »
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My licence has diffent numbers, the card has 34, the counterpart 34A

Jab

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 06:56:12 PM »
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I can't check mine as it is at work. Although a chore, is it not possible to check with DVLA whether provisional entitlement & or points is on the licence as presented. I know it's not on the counterpart.

Offline Luke

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 08:37:27 PM »
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Technically.

A licence is not produced unless you see both parts.
If both parts are not present then they haven't shown it to you.

One could argue that it is the same D/L number so you can safely assume they have a full licence, however there may be issues on the correct counterpart they are witholding.

Ask your employer. If someone produces a photocard and an incorrect counterpart, and they take them out. Then to find out that the person has lots of undisclosed offences on the genuine counterpart and maybe even a disqualification. Where would they stand in terms of liability if the student crashed and was injured/seriously injured/died?!

I may be an idiot;- but one thing I am not, Sir, is an idiot.

Offline Luke

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2011, 11:07:56 PM »
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Further to the last.

I have had people produce a photocard at the roadside showing a full licence, with a counterpart that didn't match, and he turned out to be disqualified. When the truth was found out, he coughed to 'losing' his old licence to keep the counterpart before he was disqualified. Only once in 10 years but still happened.

Luckily me and my partner trust no one lol

I may be an idiot;- but one thing I am not, Sir, is an idiot.

Jab

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 12:37:59 AM »
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I can't really see the point of it though. Surely DVLA wouldn't add a cat A provisional entitlement to a licence (if cbt is passed) where the holder is banned?

Offline Luke

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 09:13:12 AM »
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I take it you have not had many dealings with the DVLA.

Even if they do clock it, di doesnt stop the fact that the school is potentially giving someone a machine and going out for a ride with them.

I may be an idiot;- but one thing I am not, Sir, is an idiot.

Offline Hoppers

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 09:23:27 AM »
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I take it you have not had many dealings with the DVLA.

Are you suggesting that the Welsh are useless?
Wise men make proverbs, but fools repeat them ~ Samuel Palmer (1805 1881)

Nigel

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 01:57:51 PM »
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They're ok at the moment, they've just relicenced me to drive and ride, with no additional restrictions.
For the first time ever, the licence is the same design !

Jab

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 03:15:36 PM »
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Quote
I take it you have not had many dealings with the DVLA.

Actually, I'm still waiting for a replacement digital tacho card, as mine has gone back as faulty. DVLA told  me I could still work for 15 days from the time i report it but it turns out its from when it stops working. Lead to a bit of a row at work. If I don't receive it by tmw, i'll be taking unpaid leave so not impressed with the information they gave me, nor their service.

As for the OP, you're right as wouldnt providing false licence information invalidate any bike insurance should it end up in an accident?

Offline Iggy

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2011, 04:36:54 PM »
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Thanks for your input to this..

It really seems to be a big grey area..

Work say there's no problem with mis-matched issue numbers because we are not committing any deception although the customer is and therefore we cannot be liable.

I still argue the point that I am not seeing a complete licence and am not happy supervising someone on the road when I can not verify the state of their licence. I will just call DVLA now whenever I get mis-matched numbers and go with what they tell me. If the customer has something to hide, they won't allow me check with DVLA and that will be my defence for not taking them on the road..

Thanks.. :)

CBR1100XX-5
Wey Valley Advanced Motorcyclists

Jab

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Re: Driving Licence Issue numbers
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2011, 08:09:13 PM »
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Sounds like a good idea. Better to be safe than sorry.