Author Topic: the definition of off-road (sorn)  (Read 4539 times)

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Offline Lamcote

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the definition of off-road (sorn)
« on: May 31, 2010, 06:10:40 PM »
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car was taken from space in front of my garage which is part of a block of 12, behind council flats.....way off (and virtually out of site) from road. The space is included in garage rent.  The car had a current sorn.  Police helped trace the car to a car pound in another borough.  Rang them and they wanted proof of ownership and proof of sorn and garage rent.  All this taken to pound.  At first they said they had made a mistake and would return car foc!  They then said they wouldn't!  They are charging £400+, increasing daily.  No-one is saying why the car was taken. They are requesting the keys and reg. doocument.  I do not know why they took the car .... any ideas anybody?  I've even taken to the pound the original first owner of this car when bought brand new.  he sold it to his daughter 3yrs later and then she eventually sold it to me.  So we know the history and so does the pound so no problems with ownership. Any advice, please.

Offline Luke

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2010, 06:34:51 PM »
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Don't know what advice to give, they have clearly took it wrongly, you should not have to pay for the realease?

May I suggest speaking to the manager and getting something in writing ASAP

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Offline Cresh

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 12:10:40 PM »
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I would simply report as stolen and insist the police deal?  Surely if taken in for questioning the information would be forthcoming?

Surely it can't be a civil case if they've TWOCed it?  Otherwise I'll be setting up a lockup and stealing a load of cars and see who complains!
"Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, 'Hang the sense of it,' and just keep yourself occupied." ...  "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Offline Standard Dave

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 08:28:12 PM »
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Who has actually removed it a council, the DVLA or a private company?

Was it removed for lack of tax or some form of parking offence?
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Offline swyddog ambiwlans

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 09:00:42 PM »
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Was it parked where legislation considers the space to be a "road" under the road traffic act?

If so, and it was sorned, then they have every right to remove it.

There was a case locally recently where a person thought he was safe leaving his sorned car in his street as he paid the local council for a permit in a "residents" only parking place.

He found to his cost that he was wrong!
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Offline mr_awol

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 12:33:08 AM »
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Was it parked where legislation considers the space to be a "road" under the road traffic act?

Sounds like it - en block garages, etc.

It's a legal matter as to whether that constitutes 'off road' and unfortunately i think you're probably right.
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Offline Cresh

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 09:55:31 AM »
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It can't be on road if it's his own private property, surely!?  Otherwise you can't keep it on your drive unless you have gates?

I still think if a phone call to the garage to ask why it has been lifted results in no explanation at all, then it's TWOC and police to deal.  Right?
"Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, 'Hang the sense of it,' and just keep yourself occupied." ...  "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Offline Standard Dave

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2010, 12:08:46 PM »
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I still think if a phone call to the garage to ask why it has been lifted results in no explanation at all, then it's TWOC and police to deal.  Right?

Depends who has lifted it and why, the garage themselves might not be aware or are unwilling to disclose the information without permission from the DVLA, police or local authority depending on who had it removed.

The garage/ tow away agent will be a contractor for someone else without knowing who it's not possible to say exactly what the reasons are and which definitions of public place, highway, road etc apply.

The DVLA or police may know via the vehicle database who lifted it and why.
My opinion unlikely to be fact unless stated.
"all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke.
"the world is a dangerous place place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do not do anything about it" Albert Einstein

Offline Cresh

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2010, 12:49:51 PM »
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It just sounds a bit dodgy that they can lift a car and not give a reason.  If I did that on an official front, and demanded keys/reg documents and some numpties obliged, it would seem I could go some time getting away with it if the police won't investigate it?

As a thought for the OP, since they're asking for V5 is there any outstanding finance on the vehicle (you or previous owner - has it been HPI checked)?  Did the daughter perhaps take out a Logbook Loan secured on the car before it changed hands...?

I'm quite sure SORN is OK on private land, and it's only an issue if it's maintained at public expense, so I suspect it's something else.  And asking for V5 makes me suspect finance and repossession.
"Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, 'Hang the sense of it,' and just keep yourself occupied." ...  "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Offline swyddog ambiwlans

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2010, 01:04:10 PM »
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I'm quite sure SORN is OK on private land,.............................................................

SORN is conditional that the vehicle is kept off public roads.

From the description originally given................................."car was taken from space in front of my garage which is part of a block of 12, behind council flats.....way off (and virtually out of site) from road."

It sounds to me that it was on municipal land as is common with "council" garages.

If so, then the seizure is perfectly legal!
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Offline Cresh

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2010, 01:21:51 PM »
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Yes but then says "The space is included in garage rent."  So I assumed private land (even though landlord is council).

It depends on the layout and the wording of the rent, I suppose.
"Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, 'Hang the sense of it,' and just keep yourself occupied." ...  "I'd far rather be happy than right any day."

Offline swyddog ambiwlans

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Re: the definition of off-road (sorn)
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2010, 01:38:04 PM »
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Like the man locally who thought that because he paid for a "space" to the local council, he would be fine, however, if the land is owned by the council, then effectively it is public property and comes under the definitiion of a "road." (to which the public has access whether on payment or otherwise)

In the case I refered to, it was a residents street parking permit scheme. The council who rents the space cannot prevent the public from "access," merely penalise them for "parking" there.
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